Liddell/Ortiz III is a Bad Idea

Liddell/Ortiz III is a Bad Idea
September 13, 2018
By Ryan Porzl

In late 2009, the UFC announced Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz would coach the 11th season of the Ultimate Fighter and then face off for a third time in the main event of UFC 115 in June 2010. The fight never happened as Ortiz pulled out due to neck surgery and Liddell faced Rich Franklin who he lost to. With Liddell forced into retirement later in the year and Ortiz retiring in 2012, then went to Bellator, and then retired again in 2017, it looked like the door was shut on the third fight. Fast forward to 2018 and after being released from the UFC, Liddell not only announced his return to fighting but that a third Ortiz fight was being planned. After months of rumors, it was officially announced in August that Oscar De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions would hold the fight and that it was set for November 24th. Obviously, just about everyone except the participants see this as a horrible idea but I figure why not jump in and give reasons why this shouldn't be happening.



Anybody who knows both men's careers know neither are in the best of health or young. Liddell will be 49 years old in December and Ortiz will be 44 in January which is well beyond most fighter's prime years. Both have also been past their prime for more than 12 years so you can imagine what you can expect from two guys past their prime for literally a dozen years and one is not only pushing 50 but has not fought in nearly a decade. Then there's their health issues. At one point, Liddell had one of the best chins in MMA and can absorb powerful blows as good as anyone. Now, Liddell's iron jaw has been reduced to glass and any good punch to his chin can knock him out. Four of Liddell's last five losses were not just knockouts but brutal knockouts. The Rashad Evans knockout in 2008 was especially brutal to the point where it almost got scary with Liddell unconscious for at least a minute while his last fight saw Rich Franklin just bop the chin which was enough to turn Liddell's lights out. Towards the end of his career, Liddell has seemingly shown signs of permanent damage as he sounds like he's slurring his words at times and comes off punch drunk. Liddell's situation was so bad that he didn't retire because he wanted to but was forced to as UFC President Dana White refused to give him anymore fights and promised him a job if he retired. Ortiz has had a history of neck and back issues while having surgery on both and having had surgery on his neck at least twice. Along with the surgeries, Ortiz has pulled out of two fights due to neck injuries aside from the third Liddell fight. At this point, Ortiz is also at a point where it's dangerous for him to keep fighting and is risking paralysis or much worse if he not even continues fighting but even training for a fight. Nobody wants to see Liddell come one step closer to becoming a vegetable or Ortiz come one step closer to being confined to a wheelchair.

There's no guarantee this fight will draw that good. While it is true Liddell & Ortiz's second fight was one of the most successful fights in MMA history with it headlining UFC 66 in December 2006 which was the first UFC Pay-Per-View to break the one million buyrate mark, it's highly doubtful they'll get anywhere near that. Not only has Pay-Per-View changed over the years and even the UFC has struggled in recent years but just the fact of where Liddell and Ortiz stand. When UFC 66 took place, both were in their prime and among the top light heavyweights in the world with Liddell being able to argue that he was #1. Since then, that fight has also proven to be both men's last hurrah as both went into decline afterwards. Liddell went 1-5 afterwards which included losing the light heavyweight title in his next fight to Quinton "Rampage" Jackson, four of his five losses were bad knockouts while the other was a close loss in what was clearly supposed to be a bounce back fight, and he lost his last three fights. Ortiz has faired slightly better but not much as he went 4-7-1 included 1-6-1 in the UFC and 3-1 in Bellator. While he did score a massive upset win over Ryan Bader in UFC and lost to mostly top competition like Lyoto Machida, Rashad Evans, and Forrest Griffin, going 1-6-1 is still bad. His Bellator record is better and his only loss was to then champion Liam McGeary but his wins were against an undersized middleweight champion Alexander Shlemenko, Stephan Bonnar, and Chael Sonnen who was coming off a 2 year retirement. Safe to say, not only have both fighters seen better days but they have not looked that good. Sure, Liddell & Ortiz are legends but why would people want to watch them older, washed up, and a decade past their prime especially when the fight likely won't be cheap?

What does either fighter gain? If Liddell wins, so what? He'll have beaten a guy he's already beaten twice. Not to mention that Liddell comes off pathetic still wanting to fight and get his hands on Ortiz. He knocked him out twice. How many more times does one have to beat up another person before becoming satisfied? If Ortiz, so what? Sure, he avenges his two losses but it won't be against a Chuck Liddell in his prime but a washed up, near 50 year old Chuck Liddell who hasn't fought in 8 years. Not to mention, then what? While I don't know Ortiz's situation after this, Liddell has stated this won't be a one time only fight. The problem for the winner is after this fight, where can they go? Unless they get desperate, the UFC is out of the question as Dana White has made it clear he'll never let Liddell fight in the UFC again in fear of his health and White probably feels the same way about Ortiz at this point not to mention their legendary on and off rivalry. Bellator is possible as Ortiz is still on their roster page but it's possible that they won't bring them in. Bellator may not want to run the risk of using two guys that are pretty broken down and didn't seem to try to get this fight. Not to mention both UFC & Bellator gave Ortiz retirement send offs with Bellator's being less than 2 years ago so they probably don't want to bring him back so soon after retiring. Rizin is also unlikely as Liddell & Ortiz have little history in Japan as Liddell fought only four times in Japan with the first for UFC beating Jeff Monson at UFC 29 in December 2000 while the others were for PRIDE as a UFC representative and though he got wins over Guy Mezger & Alistair Overeem, he also lost to Rampage Jackson in a big upset in the semifinals of the PRIDE Middleweight (205 pounds) Grand Prix while those fights were in 2001 (Mezger) & 2003 (Overeem & Jackson). Ortiz has only fought twice in Japan and that was at UFC 25 when he beat Wanderlei Silva for the vacant UFC Light Heavyweight Championship in April 2000 and then retaining against Yuki Kondo at UFC 29 in December 2000. Whenever Rizin has used nostalgia, it's usually been with fighters with a big history in PRIDE like Kazushi Sakuraba, Takanori Gomi, Kazuyuki Fujita, Heath Herring, Fedor Emelianenko, Wanderlei Silva, & Mirko Cro Cop or even other stars like Kiyoshi Tamura, Tsuyoshi Kohsaka, & Shinya Aoki who achieved their biggest success with other Japanese promotions like RINGS and DREAM. Rizin may not think Liddell or Ortiz will make a big difference in Japan. The same may also be for other big international promotions like ONE Championship and KSW.

This thing can also backfire on Golden Boy Promotions. I get wanting to have your first show feature big names but they shouldn't be names that are as washed up and past their prime like Liddell & Ortiz. This can be bad for Golden Boy for many reasons. First is that it makes them a freak show from the get-go and first impression is very important. They run the risk of people not taking them seriously which can hurt them right out of the gate. It's one thing for an established promotion to do freak show fights or fights with old fighters cause at least they have a reputation and established who they are. This almost makes them look desperate. Instead of starting small, they're trying to maybe get too big and too quick. Unfortunately, most of the big names are locked up by the other promotions so they have to resort to two guys who no other promotion seems to want. Liddell & Ortiz also won't come cheap and paying them what they want might make this event a money loser if Liddell & Ortiz don't bring the crowds that Golden Boy is expecting. With if this fight falls through? I'll get to it in a bit but what happens if this falls through and there's a good chance it could. Not to mention, what if either fighter suffers a severe injury. Yes, they're both cleared but everybody knows their histories. What if Liddell suffers a bad knockout and something happens like a coma, more brain damage or death? What happens if days after the fight, he suffers a stroke? What happens if Ortiz's suffers more damage to his neck and back be it in training or in the fight? His chin is not as bad as Liddell's but what happens if suffers a bad knockout? That can be a black eye on Golden Boy Promotions and kiss any chance of future MMA fights and events goodbye.

Does anybody really want to see this fight and is there a good reason for this fight to happen? I don't even think people were clamoring for this when UFC announced it in 2010 so I doubt many are excited for it in 2018 when they're now further removed from their primes and 8 years older. Usually when we get a trilogy, it's mostly because it's a rubber match between two fighters who are tied 1-1 like Liddell/Couture or because of some controversy in the second fight like Ortiz/Shamrock II at UFC 61 or an injury to one of the participants like Wanderlei/Sakuraba at PRIDE 17 but none of this is the case. Liddell not only won both fights but decisively. Ortiz has argued the first fight was controversial claiming he was accidentally poked in the eye but Liddell settled any controversy in the second fight. Other than that claim, there wasn't any controversy as neither fight ended due to early referee stoppage or injury. To be fair, this situation has happened before most notably with Wanderlei Silva and Rampage Jackson when they fought at UFC 92 despite Silva winning the two previous fights but at least when that happened Wanderlei wasn't totally washed up yet and Rampage was in the prime of his career as he was just coming off losing the UFC Light Heavyweight Championship. Ironically, people aren't exactly clamoring for Silva/Jackson IV coming up in Bellator for the same reasons. Even for nostalgia reasons, there's almost nothing there. Fans would probably rather go back and watch their previous stuff when they were at their best then this. Ortiz fighting isn't anything special since he hasn't even been retired for 2 years, has fought 9 times since this decade began, & he fought 4 times in Bellator between 2014-2017 so it's not like we been deprived of Tito Ortiz. Liddell is a different story and there may be some nostalgia since he hasn't fought in 8 years but given his last 3 knockout losses and his age, most fans probably aren't excited but fearing the worst. Ultimately, this isn't a fight that will settle anything, the fans for the most part having asked for it or thought it to be necessary, and I already brought up the winner of this fight doesn't get anything significant.

There's also a huge chance this fight doesn't even happen. As mentioned, this fight was originally scheduled to happen back in 2010 only for Ortiz to pull out. Ortiz has had his share of injuries and has pulled out of fights a few times before including the Liddell fight, then his fight with Little Nog when it was originally scheduled for March 2011, and then his fight with Rampage Jackson in October 2013. Even worse, Ortiz has pulled out of important fights before. The third Liddell fight was not only supposed to main event of UFC 115 but the two coached The Ultimate Fighter 11 and when Ortiz pulled out, it marked the first time a coach pulled out of a scheduled fight that would happen after the season resulting in Ortiz being replaced by Rich Franklin in the last few episodes of TUF 11 as well as the fight. Then there was Bellator who originally booked Bellator 106 as their PPV debut in November 2013 only for Ortiz to pull out two weeks before the event resulting in Bellator moving the event to Spike TV with the Alvarez/Chandler II fight becoming the new main event. What if this fight falls through? Golden Boy doesn't have a Rich Franklin to replace someone and they can't move it to free TV while changing the main event to a rematch of a Fight of the Year candidate. If this fight falls through than Golden Boy are in trouble. It's also not just Ortiz's history but both guys are well into their 40s, both have a lot of mileage with each having had around 30 fights while Liddell fought for 12 years and Ortiz nearly 20, and they probably are more prone to injury. It wouldn't take much for either fighter to suffer some sort of training injury and even by some chance they suffer a minor injury, it can still be bad as they probably can't recover the way they once did. Golden Boy is taking a big gamble on a fight that can easily fall through.

Liddell/Ortiz is a legendary MMA rivalry and one of the most famous in the sport's history but as we see, it's one that should remain in the past. Neither Liddell or Ortiz should be fighting anymore & Golden Boy Promotions should try other ways to get into the MMA game. I guess we can just hope for the best and hope nothing bad happens. We'll see if this fight was worth it in the end for either fighter and/or promotion.